Curse

Anger Problems · Jun 10, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Nope. Heroes saved Guild Wars.

Horrible players ruined Guild Wars and then Heroes came along and saved it. Guild Wars is simply too complex for the average person to play properly; sad but true.

If ya don't wanna constantly be partying with horrible players with skillbars like those below - which are taken from real players fairly far into the GW games- (and Guild/friends are not handy) and thus failing horribly for no good reason due to said horrible players...

...gotta go with Heroes.

Try this one for size. As far as I remember, this one was a runner.

Lonesamurai · Jun 10, 2007, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

QFT! Well, except the hard part. I made a monk because: 1) Everyone grouped with monks, so no waiting, 2) I've got fast reflexes, and 3) I like helping others out.

I specifically made my monk to help my guildies on missions where monks were difficult to acquire, and for helping pugs out. When Nightfall came out, I rapidly went from MVP to Just Another Person With A 4 Over Their Head. Heroes never thank me for keeping everyone up without effort, or exclaim in astonishment over a particularly close heal, or sigh with relief when those hexes and conditions fall from their eyes.

Plus, since people have a readily available alternative to pugging, when I try to get everyone to coordinate their bars, I generally get a couple of droppers as they are simply unwilling to take five or ten minutes to synch their shit with the rest of the team. No one wants to make the effort.

So now, when I'm not infusing my way towards my wolfie, I wander over to various proph missions and help people along, simply because I enjoy grouping with others and listening to them.

It isn't because I'm in a shit guild (I'm not) or because I'm a horny pedophile (again not true) looking for his next snack (I do love snacks - PBJ FTW!). It is because I'm genuinely a people person, and I like meeting new people. What the hell is the point of charging through a game at breakneck pace all alone? "Oh sweet, I upgraded my avatar's clothing to the latest fashion! And I got this new minipetdogthing that I call Tinkerbell! Big sunglasses ftw!"

That's hot. Maybe some of you "Guild Wars was d0med by the community" people should go look in the mirror.

you really should be commended for your attitude, but although you are right on your own personal points, like th OP you are pushing your own values of the 3million other players out there, of which a goodly portion are the complete opposite of you and not just unhelpful, but mean, spiteful and if they don't get thier way they either just ragequit or go out of thier way to ruin the experience for the rest of the team

DFrost · Jun 10, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.
Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

Actually, you will most likely find yourself grouping more with real people when you join a guild. Most players don't hate playing with other people, they just don't like PUGs. As someone once put it: guildies, alliance members & IRL friends > heroes > henchies > solo > PUG. Playing with someone you know and you can trust is a lot more fun than taking a chance with a group of strangers.

I have to admit I have done very few missions with PUGs since the introduction of NF. I remember only three occasions from the past two or so months. 2/3 were disastrous, the last one went really well. It's a hit or miss, which you can avoid if you find a good guild and a good alliance, and fill the vacant slots with heroes when grouping.

Lonesamurai · Jun 10, 2007, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Joining a good guild gives you a couple of things:

firstly, people to chat with, especially if they use Vent or TS, and use of either adds to the enjoyment of the game at least a hundred fold

secondly, most guilds usually have a dedicated forum for making groups, talking about random stuff and building more of a social circle

not only have i turned my guild into a business, I also have a good solid group of friends now that i can guarantee will be on and that i can guarantee i can find someone to do something with, even if its not Guild wars based... hell, my guild plays EvE Online, Steam Games, Battlefield, etc just to name a few other diversions... So yeah,joining a good guild isn't just helpful for guild wars, but also for your gaming sociability aswell

Not to mention the fact that I now have freinds from all round the globe and if I went on a round world trip now, i doubt I'd have to stay in hotels in most countries as I have guildies from all over

Konrow · Jun 10, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Ok as has been said many times before, Heroes were a godsend. Most people were already palying with henchies due to the severe drop in community (I used to actually like PUGs :O) so the Heroes jsut gave us all a chance to have better henchies. Guild are really the only place people interact with others these days. You can still make groups with guildies, you can just chat and not have "WTS/WTB" or some stupid comments popping up in between, or you can do PvP which requires teamwork and usually only people that know eachother can achieve good teamwork/communication.

6am3 Fana71c · Jun 10, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

>> to most ppl here who tell that only ppl complaining bout heros are noobs who cant handle shit alone.

Well, I am not a noob. As a matter a fact, i think i am a good player. Many others had a same opinion. And I DO complain about heroes and hench, sure for some of you they might be god sent but that isnt the case for everyone. Did you ever really tried to create a PUG? You can invite anyone you like, check their builds, and kick em if you dont like em. So, when you have your full group of non-noobs you can go out there and have some fun, maybe even discover some nice person. "But noooo, that is too long, i will just grab my heroes and hench and solo everything..." Well let me tell you something, you can't say for yourself that you are good player till you complete many missions with real players, coz thats when your talent comes to surface, your leadership, your ability to correct other ppl's mistakes. Playing with NPC's is liek farming to me, always the same shit, you can't expect any diffrence. They might be "perfect" companions, but they are always the same, so you can't improve yourself.... and you wont always get perfect circumstances, neither ingame or in life. So better get used to it right away.

Lonesamurai · Jun 10, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

>> to most ppl here who tell that only ppl complaining bout heros are noobs who cant handle shit alone.

Well, I am not a noob. As a matter a fact, i think i am a good player. Many others had a same opinion. And I DO complain about heroes and hench, sure for some of you they might be god sent but that isnt the case for everyone. Did you ever really tried to create a PUG? You can invite anyone you like, check their builds, and kick em if you dont like em. So, when you have your full group of non-noobs you can go out there and have some fun, maybe even discover some nice person. "But noooo, that is too long, i will just grab my heroes and hench and solo everything..." Well let me tell you something, you can't say for yourself that you are good player till you complete many missions with real players, coz thats when your talent comes to surface, your leadership, your ability to correct other ppl's mistakes. Playing with NPC's is liek farming to me, always the same shit, you can't expect any diffrence. They might be "perfect" companions, but they are always the same, so you can't improve yourself.... and you wont always get perfect circumstances, neither ingame or in life. So better get used to it right away.

So why not go the next step and join/create a guild then? Ths is "Guild Wars" after all

gobla · Jun 10, 2007, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Heroes killed my monk.

Heroes saved my warrior.

Monk's imho no longer fun with heroes. Mainly because heroes don't work well independantly. They need someone to lead them. I'm sure tons of people enjoy multi managing a million tasks but I don't. As a monk my job is to keep the team healed and preserve my energy so I can keep healing my team. That's what I do, that's what I enjoy. I manage the defense and leave the offense to itself.

But with heroes another task is laid upon that. I now also have to direct my heroes. I have to call enemies ( monk caller FTW? ) and manage the entire offense as well because my heroes are too stupid to do so. Yea sure, I can do it. I can complete every mission this way. Easily. But it's no fun. It's a task.

I enjoyed the simple play of my Monk, Just focussing on keeping the team alive and doing it well. Expecting heavy damage and pre-protting. Feeling good as the bars skyrocketed up again with a single spell. And smiling as big bosses broke their weapons and spells on my defensive enchantments and healing spells. That's what I love about the monk. You manage an entirely diffirent aspect of the battle. An aspect in wich you are king and ruler.

Now with heroes? No more. I can no longer center purely on keeping my team alive and doing what I enjoy. My monk, wich whom I saw almost everything there was to see in PvE, is now collecting dust.

My warrior on the other hand is far more fun with Heroes. She's made for them. She's caller, puller and meatshield. More of the leader character for PvE.

But all in all. I'd be much more happy without heroes.

WinterSnowblind · Jun 10, 2007, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

Thanks everyone for reply.
And thanks to who ever insulted me because he's insecure.
MMO ments to be with people, there's bad players in every game, not only guildwars and the game survives,I play a monk, and i know how many bad monks are around there, but that doesn't mean all of them are bad.
being a monk with heroes is awfull,boring and hard, because you are not actually attacking a group, you have to select mobs everytime and ctrl+space, then select the other.
I find it more enjoyable when you play with people, good people that understand me and make me feel that i am really playing a MMO game.
If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.
Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

Like I said in my first post, I enjoy playing the game with others, but only people I actually know, or at least people I've met online, who I'm friends with, and aren't going to act like immature jerks while playing.

Guild Wars is great because it doesn't force that social aspect on you. If you enjoy teaming up, you can do that, but a lot of us prefer to play the game by ourselves, or in small groups. Using the argument "play a single player game" doesn't really hold up, as there are no single player games out there that are anything like GW, and certainly none that offer any kind of large scale co-op. I can't play Final Fantasy with a friend, can I?

Smile Like Umean It · Jun 10, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Heroes didn't ruin anything. They're there to make things easier (as well as being a selling point for NF). Anyone who didn't like to group before them sure as hell isn't going to suddenly change their mind and start pugging because of them. Likewise for anyone who loves grouping with people. No one is stopping you from doing it. No one is making you change your preference or views.
Some times I only have a limited time to play. Would you rather I grab some group, that took god only knows how long to form, and then end up having to leave in the middle of whatever we're doing?
And some times I simply want to explore or play around. You can't seriously think I'm going to sit in a town on the off chance that someone else is doing the exact same thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

I find it more enjoyable when you play with people, good people that understand me and make me feel that i am really playing a MMO game.
If people group more i'd have a reason to join a guild.

Wait a minute. You're a "people's person", who likes to group with real people, interact with them and give and recieve help, yet you don't want to join a guild which is that by definition? I think one of us is confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadly Eyezz

Can anyone here give me 1 reason to join a guild in PvE? there isn't!

I think you pretty much answered that yourself in your first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swift Thief

Your average PUG:

By the way, find out where these pics were taken.

I'll guess.... UW. I remember seeing a W/E with the exact same build and we asked him to change it. He was adament that his build was the greatest thing ever and it made things even better because he was a war so he could just stay at the front and tank while he nuked. I kicked him, he spammed me in whisper to reinvite him, I went to DnD, he spammed local for reinvite, we found a warrior who actually knew his role and left on our way.

Patrick Smit · Jun 10, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobla

Heroes killed my monk.

....

But all in all. I'd be much more happy without heroes.

Nah they didnt kill your monk, you can still join up with people who PUG, or friends.

U can choose to play without heroes, and then you will feel much happier as u stated yourself, don't force others to do the same however, they got the choice , and are allowed to make it themselves. That my friend is freedom. I started to henchway after THK. I noticed that henching is in many cases more easy then PUGGING. I left GW for a while and then returned when heroes came in. It became even better. Still with familiar players who are willing to contribute to a teambuild it is usually quite ok. WIth PUGS there is usually about 0 communication, and comments on builds that show either antagonistic skills or are antagonistic to others in the team are not appreciated. How can you play cooperatively if u do not want to cooperate. I'm willing to change stuff if needed, no problem. But it may as well come from others too. Cooperativity means that all make contributions and sacrifices.

Jumping Is Uselss · Jun 10, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I for one love heroes, but they have their limits that only a real human player can overcome. Heroes are good enough to tackle all of normal mode missions. In hard mode the AI of some of heroes and henchies are not up to par with the enemy AI so it is important to have real players. I like to join groups of real people, but sometimes on simple missions people do not follow directions and fail the mission which usually ends up to blaming and flaming session. If your with heroes you have nobody to blame, but yourself (and the stupidity of hero AI

).

Mr_Cynical · Jun 10, 2007, 03:05 PM // 15:05

I've been playing Guild Wars since release day (well, strictly speaking the day after, damn my slow postal service :P) and heros haven't killed Guild Wars, they've saved it. Now missions that require one very specific character type (interrupter in Rilohn Refuge for example) don't require someone to be in a large, active guild to complete them.

You wish the game didn't have henchmen either? Try creating a new Factions character and playing Ran Musu Gardens (normal mode!). Then you'll see why having henchmen is a good idea. Guild Wars is different from World of Warcraft.

I'm not meaning that in a 'go to hell' sort of way, I mean it genuinely. World of Warcraft is a large, open world in which the player basic does whatever he/she wants. Guild Wars is more structured, with missions and a storyline - sort of like a bridge between traditional RPGs like Diablo, and traditional MMOs like WoW. In WoW you can always find people to do things because there is no storyline progression - there are raids and so on that are worthwhile doing more than once. Now, with the exception of going for Master's titles (which puts you out of reach of most people looking for parties anyway), who can honestly say they have decided to repeat a mission in Guild Wars (on the same character), just for fun? That is why the game needs henchmen - otherwise people wouldn't be able to play.

gobla · Jun 10, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Nah they didnt kill your monk, you can still join up with people who PUG, or friends.

U can choose to play without heroes, and then you will feel much happier as u stated yourself, don't force others to do the same however, they got the choice , and are allowed to make it themselves. That my friend is freedom. I started to henchway after THK. I noticed that henching is in many cases more easy then PUGGING. I left GW for a while and then returned when heroes came in. It became even better. Still with familiar players who are willing to contribute to a teambuild it is usually quite ok. WIth PUGS there is usually about 0 communication, and comments on builds that show either antagonistic skills or are antagonistic to others in the team are not appreciated. How can you play cooperatively if u do not want to cooperate. I'm willing to change stuff if needed, no problem. But it may as well come from others too. Cooperativity means that all make contributions and sacrifices.

Where will I find groups? 90% of all people are henching.

Sure for missions it's doable. But there's far more to this game then missions.

Back in Prophecies and Factions there were actually groups who went on quests and elite skill caps. Now? Not even on Tyria or Cantha there are groups for those.

It's a rush through the missions to get your fancy 15k armor and then do elite missions to get fancy weapons type of mentality. For human groups the rest of the content is skipped.

Theus · Jun 10, 2007, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Heroes killed Multiplayer PvE.

It was Nightfall in general that killed Guild Wars though.

WinterSnowblind · Jun 10, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Heroes killed Multiplayer PvE.

It was Nightfall in general that killed Guild Wars though.

Good way to argue all the points against this. Just ignore them.

Lonesamurai · Jun 10, 2007, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I'm just surprised that people who say that guild Wars is dead are still here, if the games dead, why post on one of the games forums? go find something else and leave those of us still enjoying it to enjoy it in piece

EPO Bot · Jun 10, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Would the invention of jetbikes ruin the biker lifestyle? You can bet some people would say yes, but the majority would prefer the hoover goodness anyway.

Andisa Kalorn · Jun 10, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Even before nightfall I was henching my way through most missions. Or often, I did them with guildies or guildies + hench. Now it's pretty much the same but with heroes added in.

Sure I tried pugging at first, but the sheer boredom and futility of trying getting into a pug with my mes and sin did nothing to encourage me. And the frustration of having to attempt a mission many times due to people sucking or quitting. Also there were all those idiots whose only objective was to irritate the others by any means possible, which could ruin even a relatively good pug.

And I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to just follow simple instructions!

If you want fun human interaction, use guildies. Not pugs.

Bryant Again · Jun 10, 2007, 05:08 PM // 17:08

PUGs killed PUGs. Not a whole lot left to say about it.